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Ed Lee cites a recent PR Week (UK) magazine article that suggests that younger PR professionals are moving to the client side believing that in-house PR is not as demanding or exhausting as agency life. This warrants further discussion so we’ll aim for IPR #27.
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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David hold their third discussion on the myths of public relations. This week, they continue their series with the myth of the “Golden Rolodex”. Also, they play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke. Finally, Terry does his segment of “Inside PRoper English.”
Show Notes
00:33 Terry introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.
01:33 Terry mentions that this is the 26th episode, which means that this marks a full 6 months of podcasting.
02:08 David mentions that there are no comments this week. He invites comments positive and negative for play on next week’s episode.
02:29 David brings up the many events David and Terry will be attending over the next few weeks. Terry will be in Ontario, California this week attending the Podcast Expo. He mentions that Inside PR #27 will be done from California from his end.
04:09 David brings up the Third Tuesday Toronto event, featuring Shel Israel. He also mentions the Third Monday Ottawa event, held this past Monday, which Terry expects to partake in. There are approximately 50 attendees of the Toronto event as of Sunday evening when the show is recorded, and somewhere near 35 for the Ottawa event.
05:33 David mentions that he was in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. He attended the Summers Direct Communications Forum this past Monday. He hopes for comments from the attendees of the event.
06:20 David mentions that he will be doing the Canadian Institute’s “Internal & External Communications for Government” event with Joe Thornley in Ottawa.
06:53 Terry will be appearing at the Strategy Magazine Media in Canada Forum on October 3rd, as part of a roundtable discussion on podcasting.
07:46 David starts this week’s topic for discussion on the myth of the “golden rolodex.”
08:20 Terry mentions that he and David have had the question posed to them, “How are your media contacts?” too often from clients. Terry says that a personal relationship with a media contact does not guarantee that things will go the client’s way. What it will do is help inform the appropriate positioning of a story.
11:06 David says that a relationship will only take you so far. Some reporters will do favours, but for the most part, that’s not how you get your story into the news. What the client really means by the aformentioned question is “How is your influence over media?”
13:29 One way to get a bad relationship with a reporter is to build a good one and start asking for favours.
15:23 David mentions that not everyone has total control over what gets into the news.
16:40 Terry talks about how he believes agencies that build good relationships with reporters and always pitch good stories usually get their calls to journalists returned.
17:29 David talks about dealing with journalists who write things that do not please the client.
21:18 Terry talks about an analogous case in the world of government relations. The moral of the story is to not rely on contacts. It’s not who you know, but what you know.
27:10 David introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.
28:53 Inside PRoper English for the week: “between” and “among.”
30:31 David closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.
Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.
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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David hold their second discussion on the myths of public relations. This week, they continue their series with the myth of the “Agency Billing Machine”. Also, they feature an audio comment from Francis Wooby. They also play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke. Finally, Terry does his segment of “Inside PRoper English.”
Show Notes
00:33 David introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.
01:13 Terry mentions that this is the 25th episode, and thanks listeners for sticking with them this long.
01:38 Terry introduces an audio comment from Francis Wooby on students and PR programs in Canada.
04:40 David reads an audio comment from Leona Hobbs about billable hours.
05:45 Terry reads Luke Armour‘s comment on young PR professionals.
06:30 Listener comments leads to another discussion on how agencies bill clients. Terry believes in getting the billable work out of the way early in the day (to the extent that it’s possible), and David finds agency life a little less predictable.
09:14 David leads off this week’s myth-busting discussion on agencies as billing machines.
12:21 Terry makes the case for value ahead of nickel-and-diming. He thinks it’s important to make a client aware of what they’re being billed for and what they’re not.
13:16 David says that clients will be happy to pay for services they find valuable.
16:13 Terry finds that agencies often work harder trying to win business than keep business.
19:22 David believes that it’s important to track the time people put in at an agency honestly regardless of how many hours are billed.
21:41 Terry introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.
26:10 Inside PRoper English for the week: “anxious” versus “eager.”
27:28 Terry closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.
Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.
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Our friend Francis Wooby from Iqaluit, in Canada’s far north, questions the organizational skills and work ethic of some PR students, laments how some professors cave in to student complaints about workload, and links both thoughts to our discussion of the PR agency “sweatshop” myth.
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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David hold their first of many discussions on the myths of public relations. This week, they talk about the myth of the “PR agency sweatshop”. Also, they play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke and Terry does his segment of Inside PRoper English.
Show Notes
00:33 Terry introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.
01:43 Terry reminds listeners that he recently posted a special edition of Inside PR with Esther Buchsbaum, co-founder of Communications Meca and the first ever Canadian chair of the Counselors Academy spring conference. Interested listeners can find the episode here on the Inside PR blog page.
02:20 Terry talks about a comment from Jamey Sheils on Inside PR #21.
03:30 David talks about a comment from Owen Lystrup.
06:21 David introduces a chat about the myths of the public relations. This week’s topic is the myth surrounding the “PR agency sweatshop.”
07:41 Terry makes it clear that there are fewer agency “sweatshops” than most believe.
10:28 David believes the “PR sweatshop” depends on the person’s perspective. He talks about his time years ago working long hours, but from his perspective, not in a sweatshop.
13:00 Terry doesn’t see the value of working new employees to the point of burnout. He defines it as a person working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week for months on end. He suggests that it would be in the firm’s and the employee’s longer term interest to hire a second consultant and split the 10 hours/day in two.
14:40 David thinks everyone should do their homework and know what they’re getting into before they join an agency.
18:33 David says that the long hours he worked early in his career has led to him being more efficient.
19:20 Terry mentions that there are far fewer “PR sweatshops” than most would think, but David says that there are a few “sweatshops” where it’s an owner and a group of interns. Terry agrees but doesn’t think that’s the way to build an agency, but these agencies do exist.
21:55 Terry mentions that he’s had a mere two all-nighters in his 18 years as a consultant.
22:20 David welcomes any stories relating to “PR sweatshops”.
23:11 Terry introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.
26:09 Inside PRoper English for the week: the proper use of the word “none”
27:39 David closes the show and invites listener comments; through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcome listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site. Our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks from the Podsafe Music Network. Roger Dey is our announcer.
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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David talk about the differences between big and small agencies. They welcome audio comments from Patricia Parsons, a professor of public relations at Mount St. Vincent’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and from Michael Seaton from The Client Side. Also, Terry does his Inside PRoper English segment. Finally, they play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke.
Show Notes
00:28 David is glad to be back and introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.
01:48 Terry talks about an interview he did with Canadian Podcast Buffet, with Bob Goyetche and Mark Blevis. The episode can be downloaded here.
03:32 David talks about a new post on KD Paine’s blog about the top 10 PR firms in the world and their presence in the blogosphere.
05:28 David introduces the first comment from Michael Seaton from The Client Side. David thinks Michael did a great job, and thanks him for stepping in during his absence.
07:45 Terry talks about how he only met Michael face-to-face after recording last week’s episode together. They got together for a geek dinner organized by Michael and Mitch Joel.
08:28 David brings up the Third Tuesday and Third Monday meetups happening at the end of September for Toronto and Ottawa communicators. Shel Israel will be speaking at both inaugural events. You can find the signup link for Toronto here and the Ottawa link here.
10:55 Terry introduces a comment from Patricia Parsons, a professor of public relations from Mount St. Vincent’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
15:15 David brings up this week’s topic: small agency vs. big agency, for students considering a placement.
16:08 Terry mentions the fact that both he and Dave have worked at both big and small agencies in Canada. He doesn’t intend to provide definite conclusions on the debate. He recalls that a decade ago the big agencies had the big clients, which is no longer a rule of the agency world. According to Terry, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. He makes the case that at larger agencies there might not be the variety of tasks and responsibilites offered at smaller agencies.
19:42 David says that regardless of where you work, there are things that stay the same: you will start at the bottom and you’ll learn from the bottom-up. To him, the difference between big and small is simply a game of numbers: there are more opportunities for people in small agencies based on the fact that there are fewer staff to draw on. But, at larger agencies, there are certainly more opportunities for advancement because there are simply more positions to be filled. Nonetheless, the opportunities go to those who deserve them.
23:40 Terry claims that the only way to get anywhere is to take the opportunities that come your way. Be aggressive, but reasonable. Also, at smaller firms, the junior people get to sit around the table for creative sessions with the senior people, which is an excellent opportunity. That’s not to say that it doesn’t happen at larger firms, but it is more likely to happen at smaller firms.
26:20 David wraps up the chat and says that there are pros and cons to each size of firm. He says the most important part is about knowing your job and knowing who’s on your team. There are great people in terrible agencies and terrible people in great agencies.
29:00 David introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.
32:41 Inside PRoper English for the week: tenet
33:45 From the files of Inside PRoper English: Grammar Girl’s Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing.
35:15 Terry closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.
Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.
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This week on Inside PR, Terry welcomes guest host Michael Seaton from The Client Side in David’s absence. Michael and Terry discuss public relations from the client’s perspective. They play audio comments from Michael himself and Francis Wooby, and David Jones contributes the first-ever Lake-Cast. Finally, Terry does his segment of “Inside PRoper English“, and plays this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke.
Show Notes
00:28 Terry introduces the show, and invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave a comment on the Inside PR show blog.
01:18 With David away, Michael Seaton from The Client Side blog is guest co-hosting in his place. Michael explains how he became a contributor on Joseph Jaffe’s Across the Sound podcast.
04:12 Terry talks about IPR’s first-ever negative comment.
05:15 Terry plays an audio comment from Francis Wooby, who comments on the ethics meme.
08:24 Terry plays an audio comment from none other than Michael Seaton on the research discussion Terry and Dave were having on IPR #18.
12:40 Michael tells listeners a little more about himself.
15:36 David Jones corresponds from Lake Simcoe, hence the term Lake-Cast.
19:25 Terry and Michael discuss public relations from the client’s perspective, and how clients can get the most out of their agency relationships. Michael cites the book “A New Brand World” by Scott Bedbury.
23:00 Terry says the idea of the right fit or proper relationship is the key to a great agency/client relationship. Terry notes that his twin brother, who works in marketing and promotions, calls it “the final 5%”. Terry thinks it may be worth even more.
28:20 Michael believes you have to understand not only your business but the clients’ business as well. Also, it’s important to be a thought leader, because you need someone who keeps the client on top of trends.
29:30 Terry adds that it’s important to be good listeners and give the advice the client needs to hear, not the advice the client wants to hear.
33:13 Terry introduces and plays Chris Clarke’s segment for the week.
36:12 Inside PRoper English for the week: reticent
37:17 Michael’s blog can be found at theclientside.blogspot.com. He and Terry talk about a potential “Client Side” podcast in the works, so be on the lookout for more information on Michael’s blog in the next few weeks.
41:05 Terry thanks Michael for stepping in this week. He closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], call us on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave us a comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, Terry welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.
Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.
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First, apologies for the late arrival of this week’s episode.
Second, starting next week, the show will be posted on Tuesday mornings rather than Monday mornings.
Also, with Terry absent next week, Mitch Joel from the Six Pixels of Separation podcast will be co-hosting with David.
Show Notes
00:27 Terry opens the show and invites listener comments to the comment line (206-600-4741), the show blog, or to [email protected]
01:20 Terry brings up housekeeping items: the show will now be posted Monday nights at midnight instead of Sunday nights at midnight
02:00 Terry will not be co-hosting next week’s episode. In his place, Mitch Joel will join David as co-host. Thanks to Mitch for filling in for Terry.
03:00 David introduces Eric Schwartzman of the On The Record Online’s comment on Inside PR #13 about branding of social media inside agencies.
7:08 Terry and David discuss Eric’s comment
9:42 Robert French supports posting comments as they arrive on the blog page
10:42 Terry mentions the latest special edition of Inside PR with Andrew Laing. K.D. Paine has recommended it to her readers. David brings up having met K.D. in Toronto recently.
13:25 David brings up Podcasters Across Borders and Terry talks about his time at the conference in Kingston, Ontario.
16:10 David and Terry discuss a post on Steve Rubel’s blog about John Edwards’ speech at Gnomedex.
19:45 Terry brings up Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s bare-bones podcast.
22:12 Terry brings up the Nokia blogger-relations program done by Matchstick, a word-of-mouth marketing company. There is some discussion as to how Matchstick could have done a better job communicating with the blogosphere. David points to Darren Barefoot and Boris Mann as examples of bloggers who were recruited but chose not to participate.
32:14 Amy Cole comments on Chris Clarke’s segment from Inside PR #13
33:33 Chris Clarke contributes his weekly segment
35:20 Terry identifies with Chris’ segment and shares a story of his own from circa 1988
36:40 Terry invites comments to the blog page, comment line, or via email to [email protected]
37:35 David closes the show and looks forward to Mitch Joel co-hosting next week
Intro music: Our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.
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Amy Cole phoned the comment line to give us her view on Chris Clarke‘s fear of missing a clip that featured one of his clients.
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Well, IPR #13 is closer to 30 minutes than we were last week, but at just over 38 minutes, we’re still over our half-hour target. With a load of comments and news items this week, we were bound to go long. Let us know what you think about the length of the show. Our instinct is to aim for 30 minutes but to let the content itself be the final arbiter. We’d be grateful for your views on the matter.
On to IPR #13. This week our discussion topic in the latter part of the show is whether or not PR firms should separately brand their social media expertise as High Road Communications announced this week they would.
You can listen to the show with the player above or download or subscribe with the links in the show blog’s sidebar.
Show Notes:
00:27 David Jones opens the show and invites comments to our comment line 206-600-4741, the IPR show blog, or to [email protected].
01:31 David introduces a comment from Glen Myles in Singapore about a new podcast called The Panel.
03:35 Terry reads a comment from Erik Deutsch a principal of the ExcelPR Group in Los Angeles.
04:25 Terry sets up an audio comment from Bryan Person who has recently started a great PR podcast called New Comm Road.
09:28 David introduces an audio comment from Terry’s colleague Joseph Thornley of the ProPR blog.
12:26 Terry talks briefly about David Phillips and his interesting approach to lecturing his students on social media. Check out his podcast/blog/lecture.
13:48 David and Terry discuss McMaster University‘s new Masters in Communications Management starting this fall. Terry reports briefly on his visit to Queen’s University and his meeting with the Associate Dean of the MBA program about more effectively integrating communications/PR in the curriculum.
17:17 Terry talks about the Podcasters Across Borders conference in Kingston where he recorded his end of IPR #13 via Skype.
20:05 Terry notes that C.C. Chapman could not make it to Podcasters Across Borders so the much anticipated Inside PR–Managing the Gray mashup will have to wait, but we will do it sometime.
20:52 Terry mentions that Thornley Fallis Communications has a new blog called PR Girlz written by a number of the women at TFC. Welcome to the blogosphere.
21:21 David and Terry tackle the show’s major topic of discussion: High Road Communications‘ decision to brand their social media expertise separately as Vox. There was some controversy in the blogosphere about using the name Vox as it is already used by another social media firm. Debate ensues.
32:52 Terry introduces Chris Clarke’s regular segment chronicling his transition from PR student to agency account coordinator.
36:41 Terry invites comments on the show’s length or on any other topic to the Inside PR blog or to [email protected].
Intro music: Our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.