Inside PR #27 – Tuesday, October 3, 2006

October 3, 2006 • Terry • Agency Life, Comments, Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David discuss agency vs. client side as an entry point into public relations. They welcome an audio comment from Ed Lee. Also, they play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke. Finally, Terry does his segment of “Inside PRoper English” with the help of Andrew Findlater.

Show Notes

00:33 David introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.

01:30 Terry talks about his time at the Podcast and Portable Media Expo in Ontario, California.

06:20 David brings up last week’s Third Tuesday gathering in Toronto and Ottawa.

09:20 David talks about his presentation at Summers Direct Communications Forum in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. He also mentions that he will be presenting at the Canadian Institute’s “Internal & External Communications for Government” and will also spend time talking about the MRP system.

11:35 Terry mentions that this week he will be at the Strategy Magazine Media in Canada forum.

13:00 Ed Lee drops in with an audio comment regarding the agency vs. client side debate.

14:15 Terry starts things off by mentioning that he’s naturally biased. Terry has never worked on the client side of public relations, even though he intended to when he first got into the business.

16:33 David talks about the business of PR here in Canada. He thinks that the size of the team on the agency side in Canada is a big difference compared to the client side. He also mentions that there’s nothing wrong with working for a few years at an agency, because agencies want agency people.

19:05 Terry thinks that, in general, working on the client side will mean fighting for resources against a larger number of employees. People you work with will not always embrace public relations.

20:30 David appreciates working with people who “get” PR, especially after working on the client side.

22:29 Terry dispells another myth: in-house PR might pay more at the start, but a few years later the agency person will likely surpass the agency person. There are generally more opportunities for advancement in agencies than on the client side.

26:37 David talks about his time working on the client side at Molson’s.

28:29 Terry talks about agencies being more relaxed in atmosphere, and that in-house PR is generally not cushy.

31:48 David introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.

34:28 Inside PRoper English for the week, with the help of Andrew Findlater: “flesh out” and “flush out.”

37:20 David talks about someone who he and Terry worked with who mixed and mashed their cliches.

39:22 Terry closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.

Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

Audio comment: Ed Lee on In-House versus Agency PR

September 27, 2006 • Terry • Agency Life, Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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Ed Lee cites a recent PR Week (UK) magazine article that suggests that younger PR professionals are moving to the client side believing that in-house PR is not as demanding or exhausting as agency life. This warrants further discussion so we’ll aim for IPR #27.

Inside PR #25 – Tuesday, September 19, 2006

September 19, 2006 • Terry • Agency Life, Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David hold their second discussion on the myths of public relations. This week, they continue their series with the myth of the “Agency Billing Machine”. Also, they feature an audio comment from Francis Wooby. They also play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke. Finally, Terry does his segment of “Inside PRoper English.”

Show Notes

00:33 David introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.

01:13 Terry mentions that this is the 25th episode, and thanks listeners for sticking with them this long.

01:38 Terry introduces an audio comment from Francis Wooby on students and PR programs in Canada.

04:40 David reads an audio comment from Leona Hobbs about billable hours.

05:45 Terry reads Luke Armour‘s comment on young PR professionals.

06:30 Listener comments leads to another discussion on how agencies bill clients. Terry believes in getting the billable work out of the way early in the day (to the extent that it’s possible), and David finds agency life a little less predictable.

09:14 David leads off this week’s myth-busting discussion on agencies as billing machines.

12:21 Terry makes the case for value ahead of nickel-and-diming. He thinks it’s important to make a client aware of what they’re being billed for and what they’re not.

13:16 David says that clients will be happy to pay for services they find valuable.

16:13 Terry finds that agencies often work harder trying to win business than keep business.

19:22 David believes that it’s important to track the time people put in at an agency honestly regardless of how many hours are billed.

21:41 Terry introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.

26:10 Inside PRoper English for the week: “anxious” versus “eager.”

27:28 Terry closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.

Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

Inside PR #24 – Tuesday, September 12, 2006

September 12, 2006 • Terry • Agency Life, Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David hold their first of many discussions on the myths of public relations. This week, they talk about the myth of the “PR agency sweatshop”. Also, they play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke and Terry does his segment of Inside PRoper English.

Show Notes

00:33 Terry introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.

01:43 Terry reminds listeners that he recently posted a special edition of Inside PR with Esther Buchsbaum, co-founder of Communications Meca and the first ever Canadian chair of the Counselors Academy spring conference. Interested listeners can find the episode here on the Inside PR blog page.

02:20 Terry talks about a comment from Jamey Sheils on Inside PR #21.

03:30 David talks about a comment from Owen Lystrup.

06:21 David introduces a chat about the myths of the public relations. This week’s topic is the myth surrounding the “PR agency sweatshop.”

07:41 Terry makes it clear that there are fewer agency “sweatshops” than most believe.

10:28 David believes the “PR sweatshop” depends on the person’s perspective. He talks about his time years ago working long hours, but from his perspective, not in a sweatshop.

13:00 Terry doesn’t see the value of working new employees to the point of burnout. He defines it as a person working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week for months on end. He suggests that it would be in the firm’s and the employee’s longer term interest to hire a second consultant and split the 10 hours/day in two.

14:40 David thinks everyone should do their homework and know what they’re getting into before they join an agency.

18:33 David says that the long hours he worked early in his career has led to him being more efficient.

19:20 Terry mentions that there are far fewer “PR sweatshops” than most would think, but David says that there are a few “sweatshops” where it’s an owner and a group of interns. Terry agrees but doesn’t think that’s the way to build an agency, but these agencies do exist.

21:55 Terry mentions that he’s had a mere two all-nighters in his 18 years as a consultant.

22:20 David welcomes any stories relating to “PR sweatshops”.

23:11 Terry introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.

26:09 Inside PRoper English for the week: the proper use of the word “none”

27:39 David closes the show and invites listener comments; through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcome listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site. Our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks from the Podsafe Music Network. Roger Dey is our announcer.

Inside PR #23 – Tuesday, September 5, 2006

September 5, 2006 • Terry • Agency Life, canadian podcasting, Inside PR, measurement, PR, Show Notes

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This week on Inside PR, Terry and David talk about the differences between big and small agencies. They welcome audio comments from Patricia Parsons, a professor of public relations at Mount St. Vincent’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and from Michael Seaton from The Client Side. Also, Terry does his Inside PRoper English segment. Finally, they play this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke.

Show Notes

00:28 David is glad to be back and introduces the show. He invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog.

01:48 Terry talks about an interview he did with Canadian Podcast Buffet, with Bob Goyetche and Mark Blevis. The episode can be downloaded here.

03:32 David talks about a new post on KD Paine’s blog about the top 10 PR firms in the world and their presence in the blogosphere.

05:28 David introduces the first comment from Michael Seaton from The Client Side. David thinks Michael did a great job, and thanks him for stepping in during his absence.

07:45 Terry talks about how he only met Michael face-to-face after recording last week’s episode together. They got together for a geek dinner organized by Michael and Mitch Joel.

08:28 David brings up the Third Tuesday and Third Monday meetups happening at the end of September for Toronto and Ottawa communicators. Shel Israel will be speaking at both inaugural events. You can find the signup link for Toronto here and the Ottawa link here.

10:55 Terry introduces a comment from Patricia Parsons, a professor of public relations from Mount St. Vincent’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

15:15 David brings up this week’s topic: small agency vs. big agency, for students considering a placement.

16:08 Terry mentions the fact that both he and Dave have worked at both big and small agencies in Canada. He doesn’t intend to provide definite conclusions on the debate. He recalls that a decade ago the big agencies had the big clients, which is no longer a rule of the agency world. According to Terry, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. He makes the case that at larger agencies there might not be the variety of tasks and responsibilites offered at smaller agencies.

19:42 David says that regardless of where you work, there are things that stay the same: you will start at the bottom and you’ll learn from the bottom-up. To him, the difference between big and small is simply a game of numbers: there are more opportunities for people in small agencies based on the fact that there are fewer staff to draw on. But, at larger agencies, there are certainly more opportunities for advancement because there are simply more positions to be filled. Nonetheless, the opportunities go to those who deserve them.

23:40 Terry claims that the only way to get anywhere is to take the opportunities that come your way. Be aggressive, but reasonable. Also, at smaller firms, the junior people get to sit around the table for creative sessions with the senior people, which is an excellent opportunity. That’s not to say that it doesn’t happen at larger firms, but it is more likely to happen at smaller firms.

26:20 David wraps up the chat and says that there are pros and cons to each size of firm. He says the most important part is about knowing your job and knowing who’s on your team. There are great people in terrible agencies and terrible people in great agencies.

29:00 David introduces and plays Chris Clarke‘s segment for the week.

32:41 Inside PRoper English for the week: tenet

33:45 From the files of Inside PRoper English: Grammar Girl’s Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing.

35:15 Terry closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, they welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.

Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

Inside PR #22 – Tuesday, August 29, 2006

August 29, 2006 • Terry • Agency Life, Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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This week on Inside PR, Terry welcomes guest host Michael Seaton from The Client Side in David’s absence. Michael and Terry discuss public relations from the client’s perspective. They play audio comments from Michael himself and Francis Wooby, and David Jones contributes the first-ever Lake-Cast. Finally, Terry does his segment of “Inside PRoper English“, and plays this week’s contribution from Chris Clarke.

Show Notes

00:28 Terry introduces the show, and invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave a comment on the Inside PR show blog.

01:18 With David away, Michael Seaton from The Client Side blog is guest co-hosting in his place. Michael explains how he became a contributor on Joseph Jaffe’s Across the Sound podcast.

04:12 Terry talks about IPR’s first-ever negative comment.

05:15 Terry plays an audio comment from Francis Wooby, who comments on the ethics meme.

08:24 Terry plays an audio comment from none other than Michael Seaton on the research discussion Terry and Dave were having on IPR #18.

12:40 Michael tells listeners a little more about himself.

15:36 David Jones corresponds from Lake Simcoe, hence the term Lake-Cast.

19:25 Terry and Michael discuss public relations from the client’s perspective, and how clients can get the most out of their agency relationships. Michael cites the book “A New Brand World” by Scott Bedbury.

23:00 Terry says the idea of the right fit or proper relationship is the key to a great agency/client relationship. Terry notes that his twin brother, who works in marketing and promotions, calls it “the final 5%”. Terry thinks it may be worth even more.

28:20 Michael believes you have to understand not only your business but the clients’ business as well. Also, it’s important to be a thought leader, because you need someone who keeps the client on top of trends.

29:30 Terry adds that it’s important to be good listeners and give the advice the client needs to hear, not the advice the client wants to hear.

33:13 Terry introduces and plays Chris Clarke’s segment for the week.

36:12 Inside PRoper English for the week: reticent

37:17 Michael’s blog can be found at theclientside.blogspot.com. He and Terry talk about a potential “Client Side” podcast in the works, so be on the lookout for more information on Michael’s blog in the next few weeks.

41:05 Terry thanks Michael for stepping in this week. He closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], call us on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave us a comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, Terry welcomes listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.

Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

Inside PR #21 – Tuesday, August 22, 2006

August 22, 2006 • Terry • Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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This week on Inside PR, David and Terry discuss astroturfing and ethics in the world of public relations. Also, they talk more “Inside PRoper English,” and play another segment from Chris Clarke.

Show Notes

00:28 David introduces the show, and invites listener feedback through email at [email protected], the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave a comment on the Inside PR show blog.

01:28 David mentions that he will be away for Inside PR #22, and in his place will sit Michael Seaton from The Client Side.

01:50 David mentions that there were feed problems with Inside PR #20 and apoligizes for any inconvenience this may have caused.

02:20 Terry talks about his role as co-host of For Immediate Release #165 with Shel Holtz.

03:50 Dave notes two comments on the Inside PR blog, one from Owen Lystrup picking up on our reference to sports PR in IPR #20, and the second from our friend Mark Blevis about the Inside PRoper English segment from the same show.

04:05 David brings up the topic for discussion this week, astroturfing. He brings up the Anti-Astroturfing campaign started by Trevor Cook and Paull Young.

06:10 David brings up his employer, Fleishman Hillard, and talks about the issues involved at the agency level with regards to astroturfing. David and Terry will deal with three different topics on astroturfing over the course of the episode: its definition, the term mobilization, and the importance of transparency.

07:35 Terry starts by talking about the importance of a clear and easily understood definition of the term “astroturfing”. He gets into definitions that can be found on the New PR’s Anti-Astroturfing page.

12:24 David moves on to the next issue with astroturfing: mobilization. He thinks the key is whether or not a group of people have a legitimate concern.

16:18 Terry gives an example from the pharmaceutical industry and looks forward to listener feedback on his example.

20:11 David wonders if charities can be guilty of astroturfing and invites listener feedback.

20:58 David moves on to the last matter, transparency. He thinks that if you don’t want your company known to be involved with something, you’re probably astroturfing.

23:55 David wraps up the conversation and invites listener feedback on the topic of astroturfing. Terry says there is plenty of grey area, and the only way to move things forward is by talking about them.

25:50 Chris Clarke talks about his toughest week of work at Thornley Fallis.

27:30 David and Terry briefly talk about the problems with Dell batteries of late.

28:17 Inside PRoper English for the week: penultimate

29:34 Terry closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], call us on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave us a comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, David and Terry welcome listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.

Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

Inside PR #20 – Tuesday, August 15, 2006

August 15, 2006 • Terry • Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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Comments? Send us an email at [email protected], call us on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave us a comment on the Inside PR show blog.

This week on InsidePR, David and Terry discuss the importance of perspective in the world of public relations. Also, they play an audio comment from Mitch Joel, talk more Inside PRoper English, and play another segment from Chris Clarke.

Show Notes

00:29 Terry introduces the show and asks listeners to send comments to [email protected], call on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave a comment on the Inside PR show blog.

02:08 Terry informs listeners of the new Inside PRoper English page on the blog. Have a look!

03:55 David informs the listenership that he will be away for IPR #22, and that Michael Seaton from The Client Side will take his place.

05:00 David introduces an audio comment from Mitch Joel, who recommends some great books for business networking and asks Terry and Dave for their top networking tip.

09:10 Terry says that his most powerful networking tip is to be yourself and worry about building the relationship, not selling services. David says, always stay in touch and provide some value so people see you as someone who can help them out.

10:15 Terry invites listeners to check the blog page for comments from David Maister, Luke Armour, Paull Young, and Mark Blevis. David recommends that new listeners check the blog page regularly, as audio comments are posted as they come in.

11:46 Terry introduces this week’s topic: perspective, or viewing a situation from a distance and seeing the big picture. The best PR consultants are the ones who are well-rounded and knowledgeable in many fields.

13:30 David follows up by saying that PR people need to know a lot. What’s going on in the world of politics or entertainment is of interest to many people.

15:45 David says that expecting to come out of PR school and work in either sports or entertainment is unrealistic. Holding on to those interests in important no matter what line of public relations you’re in.

18:40 Terry reveals that he likes to learn. He can come up with several instances where his interests have helped him in his career. He recommends that people hold on to their interests when they enter a firm.

21:08 Terry tells a story about the time he and David worked with Toyota.

25:46 David talks about his work in the sports world, which has helped him in PR.

28:33 Terry asks David what podcasts he listens to, and Terry reveals that he listens to a wide range of podcasts.

29:50 David talks about recent events when outside interests have helped him professionally.

34:35 David introduces Chris Clarke’s weekly segment. This week, networking extended via IABC and CPRS. David and Terry think that it’s most important to join one or the other and try to get the most out of the experience.

38:23 Inside PRoper English: this week, “I” vs. “me.”

41:09 David closes the show and invites listener comments: through email at [email protected], call us on the comment line at 206-600-4741, comment on the Inside PR show blog. Also, David and Terry welcome listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.

Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

Inside PR #19 – Tuesday, August 8, 2006

August 8, 2006 • Terry • Inside PR, PR, Show Notes

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This week on InsidePR, David and Terry discuss networking as an important part of the world of public relations. Also, they play an audio comment from Leesa Barnes, change “PR Words to Banish” to “Inside PRoper English”, and play another segment from Chris Clarke.

Please send your comments to us in an email at [email protected], call us on the comment line at 206-600-4741, or leave us a comment on the Inside PR show blog.

You can listen to the show with the player above or download or subscribe with the links in the show blog’s sidebar.

Show Notes

00:26 David welcomes listeners to this week’s show and invites them to make use of the comment line at 206-600-4741.

01:15 David welcomes new listeners from Radio Talent Zoo.

02:45 David warns that he is recording this week’s show from his backyard, so beware of the ambiance of the outdoors.

03:45 Terry talks about a comment that Luke Armour recently sent in reference to the segment “PR Words to Banish” and provides some alternative titles, and they chose to change the title of the segment to “Inside PRoper English”.

06:00 David and Terry debate whether or not to commission a jingle from Luke Armour for the newly-named segment.

07:30 David welcomes an audio comment from Leesa Barnes, who applauds IPR’s approach to listener comments and talks about the survey she co-authored, the Canadian Podcast Listeners Survey.

10:55 David thanks Leesa for her kind words and explains that they are not the first to put listener comments in the podcast, but they might be the first to put listeners comments on the blog page as they come in.

12:30 Terry talks about Leesa’s survey in greater detail. He mentions that more women are listening to podcasts than men, and that older generations are listening to podcasts more than the younger generations, among other interesting survey results.

15:50 David waxes poetic on podcasting data for Canadian podcasters.

19:00 Bryan Person of the NewComm Road podcast invites listeners of Inside PR to Podcamp Boston. His comment is available for download on the Inside PR show blog.

20:08 David introduces this week’s topic, networking. Terry talks about building relationships, and David recommends picking up a copy of David Maister’s book, The Trusted Advisor. David then picks up on Terry’s idea that one should always give attention to junior and senior clients and mentions that those behind the front desk can end up with their name on the corner office door.

26:43 David gives some advice: do favors for people, and do information interviews. We’ve all needed help and been there before.

30:00 Terry tells a story of how he spent an hour with a young person he helped out years ago and ended up working with her as a client down the road.

31:00 David uses two tools that he finds fantastic: one is LinkedIn, and the other is Plaxo.

33:00 Terry says that the objective during networking events is not to sell, but to build relationships.

35:25 This week’s segment from Chris Clarke

37:17 Terry and David discuss Chris’ segment, and David closes out the chat by highlighting David Maister’s book and a podcast called Manager Tools.

39:40 This week’s “Inside PRoper English”: “…the reason why…” It’s either “the reason” or “why”, not both.

41:18 Terry invites comments through the comment line (206-600-4741), to the Inside PR show blog, or to [email protected]. Terry and David also welcome listeners to the Inside PR Blubrry site.

Music: our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks, and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.